Just how fine-grained are the channels when programming?

[SDdude]

Hello,
I'm posting in this particular board since people here are most likely to be tweaking their results/capabilities.
I'm having my new aids programmed by somebody to whom I've mailed them, and am ready to send him my audiogram, but I'm bugged by something.
The audiograms strike me as really coarse in terms of resolution.
In my case, for example, I've been playing with what is actually a tinnitus frequency matcher, but it serves the purpose as a variable sine wave generator. I can hear, despite having a fairly typical older guy sloping audiogram, that I have some notches of 5-10 DB (I'm guesstimating) in the area of 3300 Hz, as well as within the specific range of 4700-5300Hz. As I sweep the (frequency) slider upwards, I can hear the audio fade out, and then fade in again.
The audiogram in these "higher" frequencies, of course, only show 3K, 4K, 5K, 6K...
So my question is, given that my HAs have some 48 channels, is this something that the audiologist/programmer can make use of and compensate for my anomalies at those "in-between" frequencies?
Or am I just wasting my time.
I mean, I know how I'd set, say, a powerful, multi-band graphic equalizer if I were using one to compensate for this.
Thanks...

 

[pvc]

Each frequency is related to its neighboring frequencies in a curve.

• Something that might sound like this; "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti"

Aside from those "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti" sound-of-music frequencies, what do you want to listen to? Long distance Elephant talk? Dog Whistles? Probably not. Maybe listening to human speech is most important, right? Have a look at the Speech Banana image below and notice the frequencies and decibels where you will listen to human speech.

Here's a similar question about listening to Birds; → Any hearing aids particularly suitable for hearing bird songs?

 

[pvc]

my HAs have some 48 channels

What hearing aid models?

 

[pvc]

Here's a Link to → What is the Optimum Number of Hearing Aid Channels?

Which asks the question; Are there any studies/research done regarding the effect of multiple bands and/or channels to increase the benefits received through amplification? If so, what is optimal?

And the answer for the purpose of (maximizing speech audibility) was somewhere around 4;

 

[pvc]

I know how I'd set, say, a powerful, multi-band graphic equalizer

Back in the day I tried (in vain) to find the the optimal settings for graphic equalizers on my various stereo and surround-sound audio systems.

Pfft! I no longer think it's worthwhile trying to change music to suit your listening preferences (whatever that might be).

Perhaps graphic equalizers were invented to change music and make it sound better before producing the final version for recording? That's what I think, because while certain frequencies may sound good for one song, I could never find settings that would sound good for all songs? For example → Mungo Jerry.

 

[pvc]

And I wouldn't have a clue about how to change the equalizer settings for listening to the guitar in this song

• → Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum.

I would even bother with the equalizer settings for

• → ELO - Don't Bring Me Down

 

[pvc]

I'm having my new aids programmed by somebody to whom I've mailed them, and am ready to send him my audiogram

You can do that yourself. Read a DIY School Hearing Aids (v2.2) PDF File named (02 How to Program your Hearing Aids).

The DIY School Hearing Aids (v2.2) access portals are at your finger tips via 24/7 cloud storage access.

• Start here → DIY School Hearing Aids (v2.2) to find the access portals
• You can easily find the Access Portals again/anytime, by clicking any PVC Avatar (click twice - counting the 2nd popup Avatar)
• When logged in, you can find the Access Portals again/anytime, by clicking a Link in my Signature
• And finally, you can perform a simple Internet search for "DIY School Hearing Aids"

 

[Deaf87]

Back in the day I tried (in vain) to find the the optimal settings for graphic equalizers on my various stereo and surround-sound audio systems.

Pfft! I no longer think it's worthwhile trying to change music to suit your listening preferences (whatever that might be).

Perhaps graphic equalizers were invented to change music and make it sound better before producing the final version for recording? That's what I think, because while certain frequencies may sound good for one song, I could never find settings that would sound good for all songs? For example → Mungo Jerry.

This is a good song, it has a lot of rhythm in it.

 

[SDdude]

Well, looking at your response to that birder guy, I guess the answer to my question is "not particularly".
I say that after looking at the screenshot of the audiologist controls, that, again, show only jumps of full kilohertzes above 3K, although much more fine-grained at lower frequencies.
I scored a pair of still-sealed "Siemens" Pure Binax, 7 series, that I'm hoping will perform similarly to the C&Go's that I've liked, and one of which I lost. Not rechargeable, but I can live with that.
Thanks, more to come...!

 

[SDdude]

Getting back to this:

what do you want to listen to? Long distance Elephant talk? Dog Whistles?

As a sometime musician and "producer", I'm concerned with music, as well as how sound strikes my ears, so, yes, I'm concerned with audio in general, beyond just human speech (even though, yes, that IS paramount). I guess I am lucky in that my hearing loss is not that serious--more mild/moderate. My main problem, to be honest, is making out conversation with background noise. But that problem actually predates my hearing loss, more of a sound processing problem, I believe.

Regarding dog whistles, as a matter of fact when I was younger, including into middle age, I could in fact hear into the ultrasonic range (maybe 22, 23K)!
As for long distance elephant talk, that, interestingly enough, and not unlike their cousin marine mammals, is achieved via INFRA sound (14-35 Hz)! There is a marvelous book all about animals' senses called "An Immense World" by Ed Yong which describes that, amongst many other fascinating things. Rather humbling for us humans, in fact. He has an entire chapter devoted to hearing (did you know, for example, that barn owls' ears are at slightly different heights, enabling them to discern the vertical location of sounds very precisely?)

In any case, the frequencies I was referring to ARE within the "speech banana", so they are still relevant to speech, I would think.

Perhaps graphic equalizers were invented to change music and make it sound better...

Actually graphic equalizers when properly used are merely for offsetting imbalances in room acoustics, or even loudspeaker anomalies. Ideally, they are used to try to achieve a "flat" (accurate) frequency response, removing any resonances, etc. that might distort the audio from a frequency standpoint. (Nowadays "Real Time Analyzers" are used instead, that can "listen" to a room and adjust equalization automatically.)
But I would think that this is similar to what hearing aids are trying to achieve, albeit at a lesser frequency range.
My "new" aids actually go up to 10kHz supposedly, although I can't make much use of that even if they COULD be programmed to emphasize that range. OTOH, while playing with that sine wave aka pure tone generator i discovered that I actually DO have some existent hair cells left that respond as high as 12.5kHz (although many 10s of decibels lower than the others). So that was kind of surprising/exciting (if totally beside the point...)

I'm not prepared right now to invest both the money and time to program the aids myself, although I admit that the idea intrigues me and I just may go down that path in the future, with the help, no doubt, of all the resources that I see you have so generously and graciously provided on this site, Maestro PVC!

Thanks very much for your input, much appreciated!

p.s. I've included a small audiogram in my signature; Is that how people normally do that here?

 

[pvc]

p.s. I've included a small audiogram in my signature; Is that how people normally do that here?

That's one way, some of us just have a link to our Audiogram image.
Suggestion: maybe the audiogram title should say SDdude Audiogram Plot.

 

[pvc]

My main problem, to be honest, is making out conversation with background noise.

A few manufacturers are now claiming to have a new technology that will help with this age-old problem of understanding speech-in-noise. Here's a Link to → New Hearing Aid Technology with (AI DNN/Deep Neural Network). I am wearing a version of this new technology using (Oticon Intent 1's). It is a big improvement from my previous hearing aid models (Oticon More 1's)!

Nowadays "Real Time Analyzers" are used instead

Oh yeah. I have one of those to measure my listening space positions when hooked up to the A/V receiver. Thanks for updating my education on this;

Thanks very much for your input, much appreciated!

And I thank you equally! I appreciate your feedback.

Oh btw> The reason I am suggestion your audiogram title should say SDdude Audiogram Plot is because newbies may not know it is your audiogram. They may think the image is simply documentation for the forum post.

 

[pvc]

barn owls' ears are at slightly different heights, enabling them to discern the vertical location of sounds very precisely

Speaking of ear anatomy; You have inspired me to collect my thoughts about a new hearing aid receiver design.
See this Link to → New Oticon miniFit Detect Receivers are "Bent" - to fit curved ear canals - resulting in a better fit

 

[pvc]

I scored a pair of still-sealed "Siemens" Pure Binax, 7 series, that I'm hoping will perform similarly to the C&Go's that I've liked, and one of which I lost. Not rechargeable, but I can live with that.

The (Pure Binax, 7) models are maybe are too old. Maybe you will not like them?
btw> Rechargeables are throw-away (like cellphones) after the Li-ion batteries are depleted.

Here's a link to → Signia product-portfolio-spring-2017 (see page 12 of 66) for Pure Binax, 7 specs.

Here's a clip from a DIY School Hearing Aids (v2.2) PDF File named (Big-5 Platforms/New Chips) showing the age of Signia platforms with
WS Audiology-Sivantos/Signia-Siemens, Rexton, Widex. Signia Pure Charge&Go can be three different platforms IX, AX, X.
Note that the Pure Binax, 7 model is circa 2014.

2023-Q3	Signia-IX	Pure Charge&Go IX
2021-Q1	Signia-AX	Pure Charge&Go AX
2018-Q3	Signia X	Motion Charge&Go X, Pure 312 X, Styletto X, Silk X, Motion X SP
2018-Q2	Widex SoundSense	EVOKE
2017-Q4	Signia Nx	Pure, Motion, Silk, Insio, Kirkland Signature 8, Costco Rexton Adore
2016-Q2	Signia-Primax	Ace, Pure, Motion, Insio, Kirkland Signature 7
2014-Q3	Signia-Binax	Pure, Carat, Ace
2020-Q1	Widex
2020-Q1	Widex MOMENT	2024-Q1 SMARTRIC 2020-Q1 MOMENT

 

[pvc]

I'm not prepared right now to invest both the money and time to program the aids myself, although I admit that the idea intrigues me and I just may go down that path in the future

You don't have to spend anything to load the free software and simulate a fitting session. When you simulate a fitting session you can see all the hearing aid models (along with their specifications). See PDF (01 Explore the manufacturer's software).

 

[SDdude]

pvc. you are the BEST!
Thank you for all that info, which I have not yet finished perusing...